Ground Spawns - Design

[LethalEncounter]

kk, I set up 'roots' and 'budding natural garden' as a test run on your server. The code is checked in now. Let me know if you have any problems.

[LethalEncounter]

Code: Select all

insert ignore into character_skills (char_id, skill_id, max_val) select c.id, s.id, 5 from characters c, skills s where s.name ='Gathering';
insert ignore into character_skills (char_id, skill_id, max_val) select c.id, s.id, 5 from characters c, skills s where s.name ='Foresting';
insert ignore into character_skills (char_id, skill_id, max_val) select c.id, s.id, 5 from characters c, skills s where s.name ='Trapping';
insert ignore into character_skills (char_id, skill_id, max_val) select c.id, s.id, 5 from characters c, skills s where s.name ='Mining';
insert ignore into character_skills (char_id, skill_id, max_val) select c.id, s.id, 5 from characters c, skills s where s.name ='Fishing';

[LethalEncounter]

Btw here is a good table if you need one:
http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/artic ... rticle=g23

[John Adams]

John Adams
Database Lead

Posts: 3036

Man, we talk a lot. I cannot find shit anymore!

So I will ask instead... LE, in the `spawn` table, the field 'ground_spawn' is no longer needed, right? I think that was v1.0 and we did away with that almost immediately... but I can't remember. If so, can we drop that field after the DB consolidation?


And... in spawn_ground, can we add more than one groundspawn_id to a spawn? I am thinking not, but wanted to be sure since there is no UNIQUE index on spawn_id.

[LethalEncounter]

So I will ask instead... LE, in the `spawn` table, the field 'ground_spawn' is no longer needed, right? I think that was v1.0 and we did away with that almost immediately... but I can't remember. If so, can we drop that field after the DB consolidation?

Yup that field is useless, it isn't used in the code at all.

And... in spawn_ground, can we add more than one groundspawn_id to a spawn? I am thinking not, but wanted to be sure since there is no UNIQUE index on spawn_id.

Nope, those should have been unique, and looking at the table I'm not sure what I was thinking when I created it. It seems that I could have easily just used spawn_id in groundspawn_items and gotten rid of groundspawn_entry_id entirely :/

[John Adams]

Cool, I will drop spawn.ground_spawn and we can clean up the spawn_ground table eventually. I'll add a note elsewhere as it's own post so we don't lost it here.

[John Adams]

Ok, I give... I am not seeing something, so bear with me while I step through this one item at a time - again.

What I am after is a tier 1 "roots" node that has 2 possible items; 1, 3, 5, or 10 "root" (item id 18) and 1 possible yarrow (rare, item 19). Following what is likely very precise instructions, yet I still cannot make heads or tails of it, I am getting rares popping out my butt every time I touch a root... and I am getting 1, 3, 5, or 10 "rare" root items, and no yarrow.

I have tried 20 different configs, so here's what I got set right now according to how I interpret these instructions:

Note the following changes:

1. I am using groundspawn_entry_id as the key between spawn_ground and groundspawn_items. This allows multiple ground spawns to use the same groundspawn_entry_id instead of forcing the admin to duplicate all the entries.
2. The groundspawn_items table is loosely based off of Live, but I think the player will get the same experience doing it this way.
3. Entries in the groundspawn_items table should use the same groundspawn_entry_id for all the items that the groundspawn can give out.
4. To add an entry into the table you give it:
a. the groundspawn_entry_id you are going to use in your spawn_ground table.
b. the item_id, num_items, and min_score required to receive the items (min_score explained below)
5. If the entry is a rare item you would put a 1 in rare_item. This will display the "You have found a rare item" popup.
6. If you want to trigger the bonus check, you would put a 1 in triggers_bonus_check.
6. min_score is the min_score from the random number generator. Ex if the players skill is 2 and the min_score in the table is 4, the player would only receive the items at a random 'roll' of 4-5 (the random range rounds to the next highest increment of 5 to prevent problems at low levels)
7. If you use the same min_score for multiple item_ids for the same groundspawn_entry_id, only 1 item_id will be given to the player if they achieve the min_score value. Which one will be randomly determined.
8. The groundspawn_bonus table is based on precentage NOT on the min_score above. How the bonus works is a separate 'roll' is calculated and going from lowest percentage to highest World tries to find an item an entry in the table for that groundspawn. Once it does it is done. Only 1 bonus entry per trigger is given.

Examples:

1. You want to give the player 3 harvest opportunities for a root node.
1a. In the spawn_ground table you would set number_harvests to 3.
2a. Find a new groundspawn_entry_id that is unused and update the field with this.
2. You also want to give them 1 root if they roll at least a 4 (note that the next highest increment of 5 is used as the max of their roll).
2a. In the groundspawn_items table you use the groundspawn_entry_id from 1a.
2b. You set: the item_id of the root, num_items of 1, min_score 4.
3. You want to give them a chance at getting 3 or 5 roots if they trigger the rare.
3a. You add the entry to the groundspawn_items table and set both rare_item and triggers_bonus_check to 1.
3b. You add two entries into the groundspawn_bonus table, 1 for the 3 roots and 1 for the 5 roots. You specify the percentage that the given entry is triggered. Note that it will only give a max of 1 item (sometimes none based on percentages) per trigger.

roots.jpg

What I thought I had to do was set up an Item ID 18 groundspawn_items entry with 1 num_items, min_score of 3 (to make it easier for success in the noob areas), the rare and trigger are on.

In the groundspawn_bonus table, I have an entry for 3, 5, and the 1 yarrow (item id 19).

What I *think* I am getting in-game is not what I *think* I have set up, but maybe I do.

roots2.jpg

I accept the fact that the "failed to gather" showed up (finally!) so yay on that one.
I saw my skill go up, so yay there too!
I finally scored a rare (5) root, though this should not really be rare, but only 5 roots... so I should turn off "rare_item"?
The very next harvest got me a rare 1 [root], which there is no such thing in this config - help me out here.
My final gather got me another rare (3 root) and the 1 root.

I am not convinced I am that lucky to get 3 rares in a row after so many failures, so it's possible something is "stuck"?

Furthermore, the Rare in this case should be yarrow - and when I try to config that in, I get an entirely different outcome - mostly 100% successes and all rare yarrows.

Going to fiddle with this more, but if you want, please come to my DB (editor) and set up another harvest type to work like it is supposed to on live... I just need 1 example. Though I might have it sorted by the time anyone reads this drivel.

[John Adams]

Here is the config I am trying for getting 1 root most of the time, 3 roots 10% of the time, 5 roots 5% of the time, or 1 yarrow 5% of the time.

yarrow.jpg

The results right now are 3 harvests in a row, all successful, and all rare Yarrow.

[LethalEncounter]

Hmm give me some time to think about this. I'll give you an answer sometime tomorrow. It is late and your post is confusing me at the moment

[John Adams]

Believe me, my post is confusing me too.

Edit2: Ok, it's late, and I've had a long week. Here's what I'll do on my own tomorrow... let me see if I can put some cout's in to show me what randoms World is giving to hand out ground spawn loot. If I can see the randoms as I tweak the values, maybe it'll start making sense.

But if you want, or have time to, take a look at the Nodes chart you linked us before, and see if you can set up 1 roots node to give a common root, and a rare yarrow. As I have it set up now, all I get is rare yarrow from the randoms. So I must have something set wrong.

[LethalEncounter]

OK, looking at what you linked I think I see your problem. triggers_bonus_check should only be 1 if it should check the bonus tables (something it shouldn't do for a regular gather). Why is it separate than rare_item then you might ask? For customization sake, although AFAIK if you are building a strictly Live like server you wouldn't trigger the bonus check for regular gathers. If it is still not working correctly after you change that, let me know and I'll try to fix it

[John Adams]

I know I asked this a few mos ago, but let me try and be more precise with my question.

Examples:

Code: Select all

1. You want to give the player 3 harvest opportunities for a root node.  
    1a. In the spawn_ground table you would set number_harvests to 3.
    2a. Find a new groundspawn_entry_id that is unused and update the field with this. 
2. You also want to give them 1 root if they roll at least a 4 (note that the next highest increment of 5 is used as the max of their roll).
    2a. In the groundspawn_items table you use the groundspawn_entry_id from 1a.
    2b. You set: the item_id of the root, num_items of 1, min_score 4.
3. You want to give them a chance at getting 3 or 5 roots if they trigger the rare.
    3a. You add the entry to the groundspawn_items table and set both rare_item and triggers_bonus_check to 1.
    3b. You add two entries into the groundspawn_bonus table, 1 for the 3 roots and 1 for the 5 roots.  You specify the percentage that the given entry is triggered.  Note that it will only give a max of 1 item (sometimes none based on percentages) per trigger.

OK, That explains the new system. If you have questions please make sure that you thoroughly read the information above as I *think* I have anticipated your questions, however if I didn't please let me know ASAP so that I can start implementing this.

LE, I am having some difficulty setting up some ground spawn harvestables. Two things; 1) understanding min_score better, and 2) what-if scenario on multiple rare rewards based on the trigger.


Here's my scenario - first look at my data for a "compound ore" node:

groundspawns.jpg

• I have the Ore node assigned the 4 possible T1 rewards; tin, leaded, bronze, and solidified
  
  I have set up reward quantities of 1, 3, 5 and 10 for the two common types... where if the 10 is achieved, the bonus trigger is fired and they not only get the 10 "tin" or "leaded", but also 1 rare "bronze" or "solidified"
  
  I have set up a rare_item on the bronze and solidified, with a min_score of 1 (maybe that's too low)
  
  This is my understanding of now the 1, 3, 5, and 10 harvest results work on Live (correct me if I am wrong)

Problem #1:
I am having trouble fully understanding the min_score value. Could you explain it as if you are explaining it to a 5 y/o that has never seen a calculator before? I am assuming, as a level 1 character who's max skill for Mining is 5, that if I put a 5 in min_score, World randoms between 1 and Max_Skill (5) and compares it to min_score (5) and if it's a hit, I get the reward.

However, if I am level 80 and my max skill for Mining is 400, and that node still has a 5 for min_score... what are my results? World randoms 1-400 and if it's greater than 5, I win? That's going to be a rare every time, just about. Right?


Problem #2:
Taking my example above, I have 2 possible scenarios where a harvest of 10 could trigger a bonus check.

• If it is "10 tin", I should get a bonus "1 bronze"
  
  If it is "10 leaded", I should get a bonus "1 solidified"

However, how do I tell the groundspawn_items which groundspawn_bonus to reward? I am not getting this "10" to trigger yet, so I cannot tell you what will happen. Hence, the first problem -- understanding min_score

Can I get a refresher on this? There are many nodes set up just like this, and until someone tells me this is NOT how it is on Live, this is how I am setting them up.

TIA,
J

[John Adams]

AND! (tee)

When you do get the 10 (I lowered the min_score to 5 so I could test it and it's working better), I get the popup message that I mined 10 leaded loam, twice. I get the reward "1 bronze cluster" (which is wrong, see above, should be 1 solidified), but I do not see the "Ooh, you got so many commons, you also get a rare!" message and sound effect.

I understand the "rare_item" flag should be on, but I cannot remember from Live if I get a Rare message/sound receiving 10 leaded loam AND a Rare message/sound with the 1 solidified loam bonus reward.

I'll go harvest some on Live, see if I can figure this out.

[LethalEncounter]

I know I asked this a few mos ago, but let me try and be more precise with my question.

Examples:

Code: Select all

1. You want to give the player 3 harvest opportunities for a root node.  
    1a. In the spawn_ground table you would set number_harvests to 3.
    2a. Find a new groundspawn_entry_id that is unused and update the field with this. 
2. You also want to give them 1 root if they roll at least a 4 (note that the next highest increment of 5 is used as the max of their roll).
    2a. In the groundspawn_items table you use the groundspawn_entry_id from 1a.
    2b. You set: the item_id of the root, num_items of 1, min_score 4.
3. You want to give them a chance at getting 3 or 5 roots if they trigger the rare.
    3a. You add the entry to the groundspawn_items table and set both rare_item and triggers_bonus_check to 1.
    3b. You add two entries into the groundspawn_bonus table, 1 for the 3 roots and 1 for the 5 roots.  You specify the percentage that the given entry is triggered.  Note that it will only give a max of 1 item (sometimes none based on percentages) per trigger.

OK, That explains the new system. If you have questions please make sure that you thoroughly read the information above as I *think* I have anticipated your questions, however if I didn't please let me know ASAP so that I can start implementing this.

LE, I am having some difficulty setting up some ground spawn harvestables. Two things; 1) understanding min_score better, and 2) what-if scenario on multiple rare rewards based on the trigger.


Here's my scenario - first look at my data for a "compound ore" node:

groundspawns.jpg

• I have the Ore node assigned the 4 possible T1 rewards; tin, leaded, bronze, and solidified
  
  I have set up reward quantities of 1, 3, 5 and 10 for the two common types... where if the 10 is achieved, the bonus trigger is fired and they not only get the 10 "tin" or "leaded", but also 1 rare "bronze" or "solidified"
  
  I have set up a rare_item on the bronze and solidified, with a min_score of 1 (maybe that's too low)
  
  This is my understanding of now the 1, 3, 5, and 10 harvest results work on Live (correct me if I am wrong)

You need to increase the min_score from 1 to 2 unless you always want them to get something from the node.

Problem #1:
I am having trouble fully understanding the min_score value. Could you explain it as if you are explaining it to a 5 y/o that has never seen a calculator before? I am assuming, as a level 1 character who's max skill for Mining is 5, that if I put a 5 in min_score, World randoms between 1 and Max_Skill (5) and compares it to min_score (5) and if it's a hit, I get the reward.

However, if I am level 80 and my max skill for Mining is 400, and that node still has a 5 for min_score... what are my results? World randoms 1-400 and if it's greater than 5, I win? That's going to be a rare every time, just about. Right?

Hmm yah I see your point, we need to include a max percentage in the mix to prevent people from always getting a particular item if there skill is that that much higher than the threshold. Let me think about this...

Problem #2:
Taking my example above, I have 2 possible scenarios where a harvest of 10 could trigger a bonus check.

• If it is "10 tin", I should get a bonus "1 bronze"
  
  If it is "10 leaded", I should get a bonus "1 solidified"

However, how do I tell the groundspawn_items which groundspawn_bonus to reward? I am not getting this "10" to trigger yet, so I cannot tell you what will happen. Hence, the first problem -- understanding min_score

Can I get a refresher on this? There are many nodes set up just like this, and until someone tells me this is NOT how it is on Live, this is how I am setting them up.

TIA,
J

The code automatically gets the highest available item that is lower than your score. So if you rolled an 11 it would give the item step up with a min_score of 10, but not the one with a min_score of 5. If there are multiple min_scores that are the same for your particular prize level, it randomly picks one.

[LethalEncounter]

OK, I've got an idea. We add a hit_percentage field that ranges from 1-100 and always you to specify how often that item should be given IF the player's roll is higher than min_score. So in your example's case if we specify that the item can only be given 70% of the time then even if the player's max is 400 they wont get it more than 70%. This will have the side effect of slightly reducing gather rates at lower levels, but I think it is needed.