Loot System Revamp Discussion

[John Adams]

Just so we have 1 place to discuss this, here's a new thread linking our old topics related to revamping out Loot system.

Past and Present Loot System
Currently, loot is nothing more than assigning an Item ID to a list that is attached to a spawn, with probability and various ranges (of coin). You either get it, or you don't. There's nothing Smart about it, nor customizable.


Long ago, a team member named Nalandial first laid out some loot system designs based on Live at the current time.
Link: http://eq2emulator.net/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 9006#p9006

Later, or Project Manager at the time ZexisStryfe offered some insights into how EQ2 Live was evolving.
Link: http://eq2emulator.net/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 686#p18686

Including my example of how current loot works in Emu:
Link: http://eq2emulator.net/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 687#p18687
Link: http://eq2emulator.net/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 811#p10811

And here's an old (maybe outdated) Loot Issues thread.
Link: http://eq2emulator.net/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 9858#p9858 obviously didn't get much love

And of course, no revamp is complete without LethalEncounter's original design thread
Link: http://eq2emulator.net/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 4777#p4777

And Alfa's original DB idea
Link: http://eq2emulator.net/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 1321#p1321


The Future
I am not an active, avid EQ2 player as most of the rest of you are, so we will need YOUR input into how the current EQ2 Live loot system works, as well as passed behaviors we may wish to adopt (and control via server rules).

I believe the post above from ZexisStryfe may be the most current and accurate definition of Loot, aside from tier specifics which is really data. Using Zexis' write up, I believe with our current table schema we can achieve the variable configurations he laid out (multiple lootdrop tables linked to a loottable, then assigned to a given spawn).

The things we're missing are the Smart Loot algorithms that determine if a player is of a specific race/class, or does not already possess a specific item (solo or anyone in a group), or ____ what else?

This was interesting from SOE forums: http://eq2emulator.net/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 686#p12686

And also, that trigger that SOE has at the end of an expansion's lifecycle where more good stuff drops simply to prepare players for the next phase of content (is this real, or just something I read?)

TSO is not "smart loot" enabled. Generally they turn on smart loot near when its coming time to release the next expansion, so it's easier for everyone to gear up, so this is something we'll have to monitor in the patch notes.

I am still convinced that I, as a noob player, get drops off mobs that I cannot use - thus rendering the race/class/need smartness unrealistic. Otherwise, how would I fill my market board with all these goodies to sell I cannot use?

For example, if every Paladin in the group/raid already had their class-specific chest piece, it has a 0% chance of dropping again.

Assuming after re-reading Nalandial's post, this is only for T7+ level loots, which may be why my noobs still get "whatever" drops?

Also considered in the loot system should be how Groups/Raids interact with Loot. The NBG, lotto, FFA, /random, etc, and of course the tier considerations for those settings.

Oh yes, and chests

"Shinies" are currently handled in the ProcessHarvest() function I revamped years ago. The one thing still not done there is to display a loot-like box for Collection items vs just tossing it into a players inventory with a popup message. I have hesitated finishing that implementation due to my uncertainty with this Loot System work.

Floor's open. Discuss.

[John Adams]

Continuing to read through our past posts, even if this is not how SOE does it, maybe we could utilize some kind of "loot rules" globally, and/or for individual zones to behave differently. Like the Newbie areas, you'd want to gear up a noob fast so they can move onto the next level of content, so in Frostfang for instance, let a loot rule that only drops what the player can use. Soon as they migrate to a new zone like Antonica/Commonlands, the loot rules are more relaxed and players can start to see random drops to fatten their bank accounts.

[alfa]

SOE implement smart loot first in new zone when it goes released on T7, new newbie zone like EoF have it (and now quest helper to but that not the subject). And you know on live you now only have new newbie zone (they have really leave Commonland / Antonica zone, same for Steppes and Zek / E.L.). At time I have stop to play they just add some fly but not improve loot (that are ridiculous when you see new newbie zone drop). Only zone they have refresh in original content was Everfrost and a part of Lava. But maybe it can "fixed" on emu. And I am 100% sure it false, if you have a raid with all Paladin having Paladin's stuff mob drop you can have too. Smart loot is not 100 % science :p

[John Adams]

And I am 100% sure it false, if you have a raid with all Paladin having Paladin's stuff mob drop you can have too. Smart loot is not 100 % science :p

I think this is where the thought came from:

So a boss mob that has a 10% chance to drop a master and it has 33% smartloot, means that when it drops, there is a 33% chance that its a spell someone in your group needs.

If I understand this right, 33% (of a 10% chance for a drop) the master will be something someone in the group or raid needs... otherwise 67% of the time it will be *anything*.

Either way, we can make it anything we want - as long as the Default system is as close to SOE's system we can get. Rules and other options can be added for customization.

[Jabantiz]

Currently loot is decided when the NPC spawns, if we want smart loot we need to determine loot on death. There are 2 possible ways to do this, 1 is make all loot generated at death, or 2 add a `type` field to loottable 0 for on spawn and 1 for on death, this would allow us to equip items on the spawn like was planned (but never implemented) but any loot table set to type = 0 can't have smart loot.

Zone-wide Loot Table- All mobs in the zone share this loot table. This is for things like the antiquity and curious teasure body trash as well as the generic treasure loot like the Bonerot items in Darklight Woods.
Racial Loot Table- All mobs of the same race share this loot table. This is for stuff like deer pelts or Legend and Lore items.
Specific Loot Table- This is for drops that are specific to a particular mob. It is mostly used for boss loot or things like collection page drops.
Smart Loot Table- This is the “intelligent” loot table. It only drops items that are relevant to the classes present. This table checks for class, inventory and in the case of master spell drops, scribed spells (if you have the master scribed for a particular spell, it won’t drop). It does not check for level.

The first 3 can easily be done by making the loot tables and assigning all of them to the spawn. We could also make new tables like loottable_zone and loottable_racial but it would just contain the same fields that the original loottable has. As for the smart loot table, I don't think we need that, all loot should be able to have smart loot on it and not just a specific table.

As for smartloot, I think the best idea would be a new field in the zones table with the % chance of smart loot so it can be modified on a per zone basis. We could also add a loot_modifier to the zone table to allow some zones to drop loot at an increased rate (Hot zones on live).

This is all just ideas from reading over the posts several times and thinking them over, let me know what you think or if I left anything out.

[John Adams]

this would allow us to equip items on the spawn like was planned (but never implemented)

Equipping NPCs with items has been around for years. See spawn_npc_equip table. They are not appearance gear, only for stats/effects. I am not sure what you mean by "equip items on the spawn" via the loot system?

[Jabantiz]

Like EQ does/use to do (haven't played eq in a long time) where if they will drop a specific weapon they will actually be using that weapon, same with armor. There is a TODO in the loot code for this do it was planned at some point.

[John Adams]

I'm trying to explain (poorly) that we have 3 tables in spawns (spawn_npc_equip, spawn_npc_spells, and spawn_npc_skills) which you can use to fine-tune your spawn with specific skills, spells and items. They are not part of a loot drop, only giving the NPC the advantages by those items assigned. That's just to give the generic spawn a +200 STR if needed, for instance.

Unless you are talking about "visibly" seeing the spawn swinging the Sword of Coolness, then when they die that weapon is now lootable? Is that even possible? If so, then maybe we simplify all this crap by making a spawn_inventory table, similar to character_inventory? EQUIPPED, UNEQUIPPED, etc? might remove the need for spawn_npc_equip table that way.

And I have no idea what the purpose of spawn_npc_skills is... because in my mind, the AI always knows everything.

[Jabantiz]

Unless you are talking about "visibly" seeing the spawn swinging the Sword of Coolness, then when they die that weapon is now lootable? Is that even possible?

That, at least that is what I am assuming was planned. Like I said any loot we add that way can't be on smartloot.

And I have no idea what the purpose of spawn_npc_skills is... because in my mind, the AI always knows everything.

I assume it would be for combat calculations, so you can give a boost to the npc. Didn't look into NPC skills while working on combat though, would have to dig through the code to tell you exactly what it is for.

[Jabantiz]

Worked on getting chests to drop, so far I got a chest to drop with the item loot, even got the animations working for opening the chests.

EQ2EmuChest.png

EQ2EmuChestOpen.png

This is just the start, still needs work. As of right now all item drops are put into a small chest, I need to make it so anything below uncommon tier stays on the body, anything above goes into a chest. Code is on Dev SVN

[thefoof]

If possible maybe make it with the thought that there should be a way to bypass that tier check for certain drops, whether via spawn or item scripts, db entry whatever. This will be needed at some point for some quest items. Or just make it easy to add in basically whenever it needs to be added.

Also grey mobs should only be able to drop small chests. (I believe, it may be that they can't drop chests of any kind)

[Jabantiz]

I thought quest item drops followed the same rules as normal drops as far as the chest they produce and their tier, is this no longer the case?

And yes I know for a fact grey mobs drop body loot and small chests nothing higher, unless it is quest item.

[thefoof]

I can tell you right off the bat that Lore and Legend items were treasured and body drops, same with language quest items. I want to say some of the epic quests had items that fit into this category as well just can't think of anything specific.

[Jabantiz]

I was thinking of a lua function to add the loot or chance of loot on a mob, I should be able to add an extra param for the type of chest it drops in, will have to think this over some.

[John Adams]

Nice work on the chests, Jab... but is this entire emulator going to be one big LUA script?

Not sold (yet) on why the choices can't be database driven and rule controlled. When you feel like it, you can explain it to me.