Old Client Support

[John Adams]

Remind me, what effort would it take and how difficult of a task would it be to get all our old clients that we have opcodes/structs for to work again, instead of just favoring Live? i ran through most of my Box Sets (back when you could still buy EQ2 on DVD) and almost none of them work today, when they used to work when they were new. This tells me a struct changed that should have gotten a new(er) version number, perhaps.

DoV seems to be the only one out of my RoK, Sentinel's Fate, TSO, and CoE backups. I don't think we ever got AoD to work, though I backed up a client for it so I am assuming we did at once point (I never saved a client that wasn't once supported).

What say you?

I know EQ2Classic never worked (no packets) but what a dream that would be

[Jabantiz]

There was a major shift in stats after SF so it is likely SF and earlier would not display stuff properly. Last time I tested with those client I was able to get into the world with all except RoK I believe. CoE I have explained before but depending on the version there is probably not much we can do as they changed structs/opcodes with out doing a version bump at the time so two clients with the same version would not act the same, one of the main reasons I switched from my 1193 to 1208 client for CoE.

AoD never worked, we had an issue with encryption when AoD was released and didn't figure it out until just after or before CoE beta started.

Classic would be possible but it would take time, I believe I got the login working at some point by guessing at the packets but world was the one giving me the problems and I eventually gave up without ever getting into world.

[Cynnar]

Classic would be possible but it would take time, I believe I got the login working at some point by guessing at the packets but world was the one giving me the problems and I eventually gave up without ever getting into world

Eventually giving up is usually what happens isn't it? I mean getting the packets correct would be like finding a needle in a haystack, and the needle is hidden in a piece of straw.

If we have a topic we can share information found, it might go further, and might encourage others to join in. Maybe. I'm willing to look at it and say "I give up".

[John Adams]

I'm not looking for "Classic", I just tossed it in there. What I was after is a way for players of the emulator to have a reliable method of acquiring a client that isn't constantly patched and repatched weekly and "digitally delivered only ever" and no physical media to install from -- that works.

My DoV client works, but since EQ2Emulator is constantly chasing live, eventually (like all the other older clients) DoV too will stop working, even though we still supposedly allow it to log in.

Many years ago, I threatened to stop development beyond DoV, that was going to be our last supported client (because of the SOE patch diarrhea) but I was out-voted soon as we learned they were no longer pressing DVDs and box sets. Add "streaming client" to the mix, and well... I gave up.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. It's kinda what I thought (except no estimate of time to take). Message: Only supported client is Live.

[Ememjr]

correct me if i am wrong, but from what i see, if the code was correctly written then once dov works it should always work, but there are many places there is not a version check done to see what client you are using, so stuff that was working in dov/coe and didnt have a version check, and the code was changed to work with live or new structs, then it breaks the dov portion.

the other case is it was broken\not complete in dov and then fixed with live and not fixed with dov, thats usually the case with what i have done, but if there were version checks, then i have added code for new versions

i have no issues with going back and adding version checks for dov client, i have dov and coe and several of the previous box sets, if there are packet logs for them i will help with those as well on systems i am familar with

i may have missed it, but what was the first boxed set we had packets for

[Cynnar]

What I was after is a way for players of the emulator to have a reliable method of acquiring a client that isn't constantly patched and repatched weekly and "digitally delivered only ever" and no physical media to install from -- that works.

I am totally on board with that. I'm actually going to package the UI, and exe needed for DoV into a zip, and installer to make it easier for people to patch DoV. You would be surprised how many people have problems patching now. Usually ends up being one was patch but not the other.

As far as I know [mention]Ememjr[/mention] is correct, or very close. From my understanding we have to use live data to verify our data, which causes us to need live, which means live has to be compatible, and old working code gets replaced because we don't have a client check. I really wish we had a client check because it would help with Darklight since it was revamped after DoV.

But I'm not an expert here, it's just what I've put together in my time here.

[John Adams]

correct me if i am wrong, but from what i see, if the code was correctly written then once dov works it should always work

What Jabantiz is referring to (stats change) is the database, I believe. Since we do not check for client version on a database-load level, what you get is what is currently supported: Live, thus "all stats are broken pre SF".

i may have missed it, but what was the first boxed set we had packets for

I believe Rise of Kunark was our first client (November 13, 2007). This is when LE revived the project and found the likes of me, Jabantiz, Zcoretri and Scatman (others who's names I have long forgotten). I believe in the Box of this client, some of the zones were incomplete, thus only wire frame. I think this was SOE practice, to get something to the publishing house before it was done, and wrap it up and patch it on release day. So "Boxes" aren't always the best, but better than having to rely on doing nothing but fixing opcodes and structs for live 24x7x365.

I'm actually going to package the UI, and exe needed for DoV into a zip, and installer to make it easier for people to patch DoV.

Naturally, be careful what you offer as a download. You don't want anyone coming after you.

From my understanding we have to use live data to verify our data, which causes us to need live, which means live has to be compatible, and old working code gets replaced because we don't have a client check. I really wish we had a client check because it would help with Darklight since it was revamped after DoV.

I'm not recalling ever needing Live to "verify our data". We either have it, or we don't (packet logs). Once we have it and it's parsed to a server, adjustments can be made but again, what do you need "live" for to do that? The only reason (imo) for Live is to entice players to connect with minimal effort, because they have no installable software that is guaranteed to work due to the spamfest patching by the publisher.

Again, thank you all for inspiring me to blow my horn again It's been a while.

[Cynnar]

Again, thank you all for inspiring me to blow my horn again It's been a while.

You go right ahead and let that horn sound!

I'm not recalling ever needing Live to "verify our data". We either have it, or we don't

That is exactly it. If we don't have it, then we have to move forward. Which means we have to get it from live. Thus it makes older clients unusable. Unless someone wants to take the time to do the guess work on missing packets. Don't shoot me down just yet! I don't know how much data is missing from older clients, so I could be talking out my ass. BTW verify our data may not have been best choice of words. Was also thinking about content as well.

Naturally, be careful what you offer as a download. You don't want anyone coming after you.

Thanks for the warning. All it will contain is the UI, and the same file the patcher uses to back patch. Hopefully this will not be an issue.

[John Adams]

and the same file the patcher uses to back patch.

Oh, you wanted the Client Patcher tool to still work? Oops. Pretty sure going SSL broke that I can try leaving patch.eq2emulator.net unsecure.

[Cynnar]

Oh, you wanted the Client Patcher tool to still work?

Actually I just need the file that it patches, it's only one that I'm aware of, and can bundle that with the UI download. This will do away with the client patcher utility.

[Jabantiz]

I don't know how much data is missing from older clients, so I could be talking out my ass.

This is exactly why I focus on the CoE client so much, Xinux and I went nuts collecting in CoE beta, not just content but a bunch of features as well. CoE era logs (1188 - 1208) is probably the most complete collections of logs we have ever had including features not easily collected.

That said once a struct is figured out for any version it is easier to adjust it for other versions. For example any struct made for live can be compared to a CoE packet and adjusted accordingly, then we have an idea of what changes over time so we can guess for a DoV client if we don't have packets for it and usually get it fairly easy.

As for content it doesn't matter what version it is collected in it will work with any client as long as the structs are correct. Only exception to this would be newer models, for example we can't have aerakyn in a DoV client.

[tyrbo]

I have a new launcher tool I tossed in our "private" dev chat ([mention]Scribble[/mention] ) the other night.

It looks for EQ2 installations, offers to back the chosen one up, and then will set the eq2_default file.
Subsequent launches will automatically load up the emulator version.

Some people seemed to have issues using some of the other files mentioned on the wiki, so I'm hopeful to introduce this as sort of a 1-click-and-done solution.

[Scribble]

I have a new launcher tool I tossed in our "private" dev chat (@Scribble ) the other night.

LMFAO!

[Cynnar]

[mention]Scribble[/mention] is hitting the sauce again.

Edit: Or maybe it's the pipe

[Scribble]

@Scribble is hitting the sauce again.

Edit: Or maybe it's the pipe

Not sharing!