So what is so hard about hosting an emulated MMO server?

[scaramoosh]

I don't understand why games can have simple cracks to play but MMOs seem a far more complex task. I want to play the original EverQuest 2 because I hate the stuff SOE added since and I cannot play it. I just don't understand why I cannot apply a crack and go play it myself..

What stops an MMO from working?

[Jabantiz]

Because the actual content is on the server, not locally. If you could apply a patch and bypass all the online stuff it would just be empty zones to walk around in. All the client really has is the assets, even combat equations are server side.

[scaramoosh]

So when SOE says they cannot go back to the old version because all the server infrastructural of old has gone, is it not as simple as just archiving the old server side code? I so want to play the game I experienced in beta and launch but in SOE fashion they've ruined the game and don't let you go back to how you used to like it. WoW seems to have classic emulators coming out of every direction but sadly SOE games do not.

I love Project 1999, I play it a lot, it's much better than the current EQ. I'm loving Vanilla WoW servers, again it is so much more fun to me that what we have today and I'm trying to enjoy SWGEmu of the Pre CU but so much is still missing, even so it's better than the NGE version.

I just have so many memories of EQ2, when I look back at the old footage, it has such a distinctive feel that other fantasy MMOs don't have, especially in the original music, the new stuff is generic shit.

[John Adams]

I just have so many memories of EQ2, when I look back at the old footage, it has such a distinctive feel that other fantasy MMOs don't have, especially in the original music, the new stuff is generic shit.

I feel exactly the same way, and it is the primary reason I am so passionate about this project. With EQ2Emulator, you *CAN* run an Everquest II -- Original Game, if you spend the time and effort to make it so. As we develop the project for current "Live" compatibility, we're always thinking about the EQ2 Classic options, and will add pieces here and there to make that a possibility.

Even with our current code, you can enjoy the game as it was in 2004, if you change some of the Rules and data and scripts. It's no simple task, but it can be done. It is my long-term goal that, once we're "finished" with EQ2Emulator, I want to branch off to a EQ2 Classic much like Project1999 for EQemu. Call it, Project2004

[Flunklesnarkin]

Interesting idea. I check in here periodically and log on sometimes to poke around.

Do you have any idea how far the project is from completing all the vanilla content and game mechanics.

I'm sure a lot of folks would love just playing the straight up original version while the rest of the expansions were being developed.

I can see why you guys are chasing the newer clients, It makes sense to use the new ones so it's easier to add in the expansions as they are completed.


I imagine releasing a vanilla only server would spike the forum population here also and might even lead to more coding assistance from newcomers.

[scaramoosh]

I don't understand though, how do you take on a task like this? Where do you start? Like I look at the game and think to go on forums and complain, I wouldn't know where to start to Emulate an MMO lol. I thought it would be as simple as cracking it or something....

Programming on the whole though is a mystery, there is no easy guide to learn how to do it, no one tells you where to start.

[John Adams]

I imagine releasing a vanilla only server would spike the forum population here also and might even lead to more coding assistance from newcomers.

Well this is not exactly a true statement. Our original database is "vanilla", RoK content - at least the first 10 or so levels. We have never, ever had high interest in our project. Nowhere near as much community involvement as EQemu for instance, who have been around a whole lot longer. I do not know what their forum/community involvement was in their early days, but hopefully this is just a passing phase until we get more stuff implemented.

Do you have any idea how far the project is from completing all the vanilla content and game mechanics.

Hah, you know better than to ask a question like that. There is no way to determine completion, with 1.5 C++ devs, no content devs, and zero community support. We were initially planning full functionality by 2008, back when LE was pooping out full features monthly. Life gets in the way, this is not our "job", so it will get done when it is done I suppose. Hint: the more help we have, the sooner it will get done.

So saying, if we get more done we'll get more help is kinda... catch-22.

[John Adams]

Programming on the whole though is a mystery, there is no easy guide to learn how to do it, no one tells you where to start.

No one "told me where to start" either. I just did it. I was interested, passionate, got involved in the database aspect (schema and content), and now I run the entire project. I do not know diddly about C++, and barely any info about current EQ2 Live functionality (I am not a player) but I do know how to run a project (though my team may disagree), know how to prioritize, and generally work well with my very small team of volunteers - who all "learn as they go". No one is an expert here.

But you cannot get anywhere if you do not start somewhere.

[leeyuuduu]

John Adams
Do you have any recommended sites to learn C++ for beginners or the skills needed to participate in these types of projects?? I've played P1999, UOHybrid, Uthgard etc. so I am very much interested in helping such projects in the future...and pre-RMTwhore EQ2 was one of my favorite MMOs..

[scaramoosh]

Well I've been looking to getting myself into programming and spoke to a friend who is finishing his last year in Uni. He told me to start learning C because that's the basic language they all sprout off from, though learning something like Java or C++ is probably easier and then going into C. However all his advice and what books to buy left me lost, I bought them and they didn't really help me understand the basics, they all assume you know something about it. So I know people will look down on me for this buy I bought a Dummies book about C because the guy who wrote it did the first ever one for Dos and he's great. This Dummies book for C is great, it really does start at the basics and teaches you, though it moves slowly lol. Then once I've learnt from this book I'm going to branch out on the others I bought and then C++. Really good book though, has great exercises and really helps you understand what everything means unlike a lot of the others.

Quite hard teaching yourself, I mean motivation wise it's hard to set time aside for it and not having a teacher that you can just ask questions to directly and who gives you direct feedback. It is fun though and I'm also doing this video tutorials of this guy using C# for Windows Phone development and I'm doing those because it sort of ties in and gives me visual feedback I need. Though I am quickly learning that I should have paid more attention to algebra in school and probably shouldn't have dropped out to get a job at 15 lol.

[John Adams]

Quite hard teaching yourself, I mean motivation wise it's hard to set time aside for it and not having a teacher that you can just ask questions to directly and who gives you direct feedback.

I will agree that not having trusted colleagues to consult with can make the learning process seem impossible, but the internet is so saturated with information these days, it's impossible to NOT get an answer to any question you have. The key is, wading through the hack-wannabe idiots who don't know jack, but still offer "well this worked for me" answers. That has been my problem since day 1 here.

I am in no way a C/C++ expert, but I understand it a lot more today (because of this project) than I did 5 years ago. I spent the first 3 years on this project just doing data, and minimal C++ code (Parser). My motivation? I needed the damn data. So for what motivates you, that can only come from within. If you're just interested in learning C just because, then yes that will be hard to motivate. However, necessity drove me to learning it - with the great help of our C++ gurus here - I can now navigate C++ almost unscathed

There are still many mysteries to me, but this project - trying to make it succeed - is my sole motivation. And because of this "hobby", I can now understand code in my projects at work and make my employer very happy. Win win.

Good luck.

PS: Someone asked for learning sites - one of my favorite sites on the web is StackOverflow.com. Any search results that show that sight, you're certain to find your answer.

[scaramoosh]

I'm just wanting to get into it because I like Windows Phone and I did these video tutorials on Windows Phone 7 http://channel9.msdn.com/Series/Windows ... -Beginners and I really liked it. However what I've found is when you have no clear direction, you end up just doing pointless tasks and not learning anything. It's also easy to just say "I'll do it tomoz" and never get round to doing anything. So I've found I need to make clear goals and learn gradually, rather than trying to take it all on at once. It's a bit like getting into exercise where the hardest part is just sticking with it, though if you had a trainer (or in this case Uni) then you're much more likely because that is pushing you on. It's hard and the fact that my friend has been at Uni doing it for 4/5 years and he says he feels like he is only at the tip of the iceberg is quite off putting lol.

The Dummies book is really good, I mean people will look down upon it but it has given me the motivation because it's made me understand the basics of C. Where as every other book has assumed I know the basics, even if they're teaching you Hello World, they never really explain well enough for newcomers. That Phone 7 video tutorial is great because it's practical work and I've found you only learn through exercises, just reading about it isn't enough... for me personally anyways.

Back onto the EQ2 topic though, I'll look forward to the day someone makes the classic version, but only if they animate those griffins properly, even to this day they're stiff cardboard objects. The wings don't even animate to the speed they're going and I don't understand what SOE were doing with a lot of things in the game. That's SOE all round though, different levels of quality throughout their game, usually due to poor rushed expansions, then that quality level drops over time too. I don't get why they rush their games to release, Planetside 2 didn't need to come out last year. As a result, everyone is quitting because the game is deeply flawed and it is a shame. They keep saying they're learning and don't make the same mistakes and yet they do the same exact thing every time. I guess that's the downside to being a public traded company.

[scaramoosh]

When you decided to make a server for EQ2, where did you start? Surely there is server you could copy and paste the files from, you had to start from scratch right? So I don't understand how you start going about making a server so you could get EQ2 to run without the need of an official server.