Mini Login

[oghog]

I know this is WAY early in development and Im eagerly trolling the forums to see how things go. I applaud the developers and the interest in this project. EQ2 is the MMO Ive enjoyed the most, and to be able to play it again (i have crappy ass Wildblue internet cause I live in the sticks) would rock!
Hence my question, since I do have crappy internet, I wont be able to log into a public server. Will there be something implemented like Minilogin on the EQ2 Emulator?
Thanks in advance and keep up the good work! Im glad to be able to be a part of this project so early in the development and hope I can help out once things become more open.
OG

[LethalEncounter]

Aye, there will be a minilogin. I'm not sure how I will limit its functionality, although I will make sure that it works. The point in limiting it's abilities is that it keeps players from grabbing the source and login and doing their own thing and never coming back. You might think that I would do this to keep people depending on me or some power thing. I can assure you this is incorrect. I would do it to maintain a community. Everyone benefits from such a community. Take the example above of a user grabbing the source and login and modifying the source to create the best emulator ever. If he did that for him and his friends, then there would be no reason for him to share his work with others. On the other hand, if he used the public login server and stayed active in the community, he would be more likely to contribute his code and help the project as a whole. I dont know if this scenario would happen or not, but I believe that it would and that is why I would limit a minilogin. The same philosophy went into the creation of the original eqemulator's minilogin. I was the one who modified it and got it working after eqemu 5.0 (I used my forum account Edgar1898 back then).

[techguy84]

As much as people down the road, or now for that matter, may come in and say, "Wheres the Login Server code" I think it should be kept closed source as long as there is someone to work on and maintain it. Now if we get the situation that is prevelent over at EQEmu right now, and that there is almost no true dev team to maintain the LS, and there are obvious errors at the moment in that LS, then we should explore avenues to fix that, last being to release the code to the public.
Anyone actually wonder what has kept EQEmu so strong for so long. The project is around 6-7 years old now isnt it, and its still there. Do you think Antrix or Mangos will be around with that kinda thunder that many years down the road. I doubt it myself as you look at that scene now. Everyone grabs the source of Antrix, or whatever its called now, goes and makes there own server, does their own improvments, and never reports back to the dev team. Heck, just go look at the boards at Emupedia and see the massive chaos that is over there. Here, we have a centralized source. Everyone can come and see everyone else that has the same intresest.
Anyhow, I can go on and on, but the main thing is community, and if people are allowed to grab and run, we only see them back here with questions. The whole thing turns into a support group, no cool "What kind of cookies do you like" topics and certainly no fun.

[alfa]

So if I understznd correctly you want to relase a mini login who need "main server" for work propely ?
I think people want juste a minilogin server for 1 things not quit the community but juste for having only your own server when the player have choice (for example the main login server of EQEmu have 30~40 listed so it is no easy for user to select server).
Finaly I think your idea is very good and I hope the EQ2 Minilogin have same "principes" of EQ1 Minilogin.
It is just my idea and if you don't want this I respect your choise keep the comunity active is the best thing for the futur of the emu.
Keep your work good and congratulation for wath are you doing now (all dev)
So sorry for my bad English I hope you can understand me ^^

[LethalEncounter]

No, you misunderstood me. Minilogin wont need public login to work, but it's functionality will be limited. How it is I'm not sure at this point.

[oghog]

Thanks for the quick replies all. The main reason I was asking about a MiniLogin was so that I can help with the development, bug testing, et al.
I dont know what you could do to "limit" a mini login and still give users/testers availability to everything needed, but you guys are doing a great job and I have faith that whatever you come up with will be the best possible answer.

[techguy84]

I would only assume that LE will do the ML the same way its done on EQEmu. Instead of using the encryption to validate users by thier names, it will validate via IP addresses. This makes it more difficult to take it and run and make a super community off to the side as everyones IP changes once in a while, unless they have Statics of course.
Some people will think that this if for control and power, but its trully not as LE said. Its to keep people together to make the project more of a community, and not just a support base for the emu itself. Everyone helps out with there code updates, DB additions, new ideas ect... and things develop better in the long run. Plus, like I said myself, big thing is longevity. Making people play and work at the same spot keeps things alive and kicking. Server OP's host thier own forums, but you still need to come here to get to thier servers. Its not a bad thing, its just the way it is.

[alfa]

Instead of using the encryption to validate users by thier names, it will validate via IP addresses. This makes it more difficult to take it and run and make a super community off to the side as

Sorry but I don't understand, what do you mean ? User need to refresh their account when their IP change ? Or it is for server ?

[ZexisStryfe]

I found the whole IP limiter thing to be a pain for the EQEmu Minilogin. If possible I would like to see some other type of limiter so friends could play on my private server without me going through hoops to get it to work over the internet.
Maybe limit the number of users that the minilogin allows?

[alfa]

Maybe limit the number of users that the minilogin allows?

This ype of restriction have down some big emu commynity like Kobold or ACSphere

[techguy84]

Instead of using the encryption to validate users by thier names, it will validate via IP addresses. This makes it more difficult to take it and run and make a super community off to the side as

Sorry but I don't understand, what do you mean ? User need to refresh their account when their IP change ? Or it is for server ?

Right, users are accounts are known by thier IP address, not their username and passwords. This prevents someone from reverse engineering it and getting the encryption methods of the public LS and hacking accounts. With EQEmu, the orignal LS I belive had Live or Live like encryption. Using this someone could even hack live accounts with a little knowledge.

I found the whole IP limiter thing to be a pain for the EQEmu Minilogin. If possible I would like to see some other type of limiter so friends could play on my private server without me going through hoops to get it to work over the internet.
Maybe limit the number of users that the minilogin allows?

This in thery could be done, but LE would have to create a custom encryption that severly differs from whats on Public. The ML via IP is fine if you do the right steps to make it work. It doesnt just work with Internal IPs, but external also, so no need to make VLan or anything. One could make a PHP page and make a small apache server that your friends could swing by before connecting to the server. This page would grab thier IP, they would put in thier username and password, and the page would find that and update the IP with the proper new one. Make sure all appropriate ports are opened and everythign works fine. The procecess shouldnt take no more than 5 seconds to complete or less. Angelox, a mod over on EQEmu does this for is private server, Angelox's Classic Challenge. It works fine if you do it right and open up all neccisary ports.

[alfa]

This prevents someone from reverse engineering it and getting the encryption methods of the public LS and hacking accounts.

Ok ^^ understand and full agree
So I start to try to make an launcher/patcher from EQ2Map Updater src, with a dialog box for send log/pass at "Main EQ2Emu LS", refresh IP and after launch the game.
But another question after refresh IP when you log on you have to retype log/pass in dialog at start of game or automaticly the Main LS log you with your IP?
And if have to retype log/pass in game, anyone know the argument for automatic auth (like off launcher) ?
And last so minilogin just change the realm list and you still do auth with the main LS right ?
Thx for anwser

[techguy84]

This prevents someone from reverse engineering it and getting the encryption methods of the public LS and hacking accounts.

Ok ^^ understand and full agree
So I start to try to make an launcher/patcher from EQ2Map Updater src, with a dialog box for send log/pass at "Main EQ2Emu LS", refresh IP and after launch the game.
But another question after refresh IP when you log on you have to retype log/pass in dialog at start of game or automaticly the Main LS log you with your IP?
And if have to retype log/pass in game, anyone know the argument for automatic auth (like off launcher) ?
And last so minilogin just change the realm list and you still do auth with the main LS right ?
Thx for anwser

Well, the way it works is that you run the minilogin on your own personal computer. People connect to your computer to access it. The ML pulls user info via IP address from the Database to let the player log in. They in turn, point there EQ2host.txt or whatever it is to your home IP address instead of the eq2emulator.net one, which is the Public Login. Since IP address change sometimes, they may or may not need to go to the page I suggested and update thier information.
My IP changes once month, sometimes less. The catch is, if you cant login, go to the page and update. A application would work, but you have to code it to have access to your computer, and your Database, which means that you are going to be giving out your DB's access username and password which has full rights to mod whatever the hell it wants to, which of course isnt a good idea as anyone could log in and screw it up. Using a php page, users dont imediatly have access to your db's info, only the php that the page is running on does. They update when needed and the page will write in the new information into your database.

[Zex]

I enjoy playing with myself sometimes

[alfa]

Well, the way it works is that you run the minilogin on your own personal computer. People connect to your computer to access it. The ML pulls user info via IP address from the Database to let the player log in. They in turn, point there EQ2host.txt or whatever it is to your home IP address instead of the eq2emulator.net one, which is the Public Login. Since IP address change sometimes, they may or may not need to go to the page I suggested and update thier information.
My IP changes once month, sometimes less. The catch is, if you cant login, go to the page and update. A application would work, but you have to code it to have access to your computer, and your Database, which means that you are going to be giving out your DB's access username and password which has full rights to mod whatever the hell it wants to, which of course isnt a good idea as anyone could log in and screw it up. Using a php page, users dont imediatly have access to your db's info, only the php that the page is running on does. They update when needed and the page will write in the new information into your database.

Ok so I prevent to use my program with a web browser (simple php page with 2 dialog box and refresh IP button). And I think it is more easy to code and of corse more safe.
So for php page I have juste to update minilogin DB with the new IP right ? And after mini login send info to main LS (and no need to do something for this aleready code in mini login) it is that?